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Introduction:
Philippe Carillo has made a 52-minutes film that busts the myths of nuclear reactor safety that is clear, easily understood, and devastatingly powerful. He is a French and Vanuatu citizen currently living in the Vanuatu archipelago. While living in Paris, he worked on several major documentary projects for the BBC, 20th Century Fox, French National TV, and independent film productions. He moved to Hollywood in 2003 and made his first feature documentary in Hollywood in 2013, Inside the Garbage of the World. The film won 3 awards, was distributed worldwide, and inspired a wave of changes regarding plastic pollution. Philippe moved to Vanuatu in 2017 and has since made more than 100 short films in that country. In 2022, he decided to finish his feature documentary about Fukushima. That film, The Fukushima Disaster The Hidden Side of the Story, was the topic of our conversation.
Libbe HaLevy
Philippe, Thank you very much for joining us on nuclear Nuclear Hotseat. What made you decide to make a film about Fukushima?
Philippe Carillo
Thank you Libbe for having me on your show. I guess at some point of your life, when you get older, saw and experienced a lot of things, you realize that you could contribute to a better future for our kids and future generations, especially when you know something is not right and need to be exposed. Then a film is a good medium to do so.
After finishing my previous film about plastic pollution in our oceans, called Inside the Garbage of the World, I came across information that there was more than trash that was traveling from Japan from the 2011 Tsunami. There was also nuclear radiation.
So, I went to Alaska in 2015 to interview the researcher and his wife about that and did some sampling of plastic and radiation for Randall Mielke, former NASA Nuclear Scientist, to find out if the radiation from Fukushima was already there.
At the same time, I was already doing the production of the film starting with Yoichi Shimatsu, former Japan Time journalist, whom I interviewed in Bangkok, Thailand in 2014.
Libbe HaLevy
I watched the film today, that’s my second time watching it, and at the end I was in tears. I was chocked up several times through the emotion of it really get coming through so, that was very powerful. How did you go about starting the film? When did you start and what was the beginning of your compiling of the information?
Philippe CarilloYes, the film is emotional because it is about our lives, about the future of our species and Maggie Gundersen was very emotional about it. It was one of these moments that you don’t want to miss as a filmmaker because it makes the film very powerful. And then when you add the music and the way you cut it makes it even more touching.
This is how it started: I got in contact with former Japan Time magazine journalist Yoichi Shimatsu, he is not living in Japan anymore as his chief editor have had been assassinated.
Libbe HaLevy
And that he sees that as putting himself in danger?
Philippe Carillo
Yes, but I think he knows who he is dealing with. He didn’t feel safe anymore in Japan, so he does not live there anymore. I went to Bangkok to interview him and he was taking precautions with me because he did not know me, and he thought I may be a CIA asset or other secret government agency’s killer and will would try to get him.
So, we met at a public place first, on the top of a bridge in Bangkok, full of people, he guided me there on the phone, observed me and then we met. Then after a quick chat and after feeling safe, he gave me another appointment later at a cafe. This is where I did his first interview on camera.
Then everything changed for me. The amount of data he gave me was above and beyond what I thought it will would be. This is really when I decided to do this film for good. There was a lot of cover-ups on this story and that was very interesting from an audience perspective.Ultimately, we ended up going to Japan, with different routes 2 months later. We did travel to the Fukushima prefecture, near Sendai, approximately 10 kms from Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant. We could not approach the Nuclear Power Plant because of the exclusion zone and the level of radiation there. We were wearing our Geiger counter at all times to make sure we didnt get irradiated.
I wasn’t sure what I will would do with all the information I’d gotten. I wanted to do a film about Fukushima but didn’t know where to start. After that, I worked on contacting other experts on nuclear radiation to confirm the data and talk even more about it. I’ve got Nobel Prize Nominee Dr. Helen Caldicott, Nuclear Engineer Arnie Gundersen, former spokesperson for the Nuke Industry Maggie Gundersen, Randall Mielke NASA Nuclear Scientist and then went to Canada, Hawaii, Marshall Island China and Chernobyl in Ukraine. I wanted to cover the French bomb tests in Tahiti as well, but it didn’t work out. I thought I could cover all the accidents and bomb tests in 1 film but that was too much.
But yet, I found some very interesting data that blew my mind. For example, in Majuro Marshall Island Capital, it’s the Dept. of Energy from the US and not the Dept. of health who is still monitoring the radiation level of the indigenous people. And they don’t provide any effective solution. To me, it looks like local people are a live experiment of the effect of nuclear radiation by the US Dept. of Energy.
Libbe HaLevy
That was the bomb test that was done in the Pacific, correct?
Philippe Carillo
Yes, I was also able to find and interview an old lady who witnessed the Bravo test, the most powerful bomb, the hydrogen bomb test, and it was done at Bikini Atoll. And not too far away, on Rongelap Island, the locals experienced a second sun. This is how they described it. And then they experienced a grey snow falling on their island and they have been heavily contaminated.Fortunately, this lady who was a child at that time, stayed inside. But all the others who did play with this radioactive fallout outside started to have their hair falling and other symptoms and ultimately later on died. That was terrible. I was lucky to get to interview an eyewitness of this terrifying occurrence.
And then I went to Chernobyl Ukraine and it was also very interesting, I did interview the Chief Engineer who was working there during the accident in 1986 and also one of the last Liquidators.
Libbe HaLevy
When you say the last liquidator, do you mean the last one who is still alive?
Philippe CarilloYes, I was lucky to be able to interview him.
After the whole film production trip, it became obvious that people were used as guinea pigs. To me, all the evidences points to a live experiment about nuclear radiation, and I found out that these things come back all the time, they are using people as an experiment. That happened also in Japan after Fukushima Daiichi first explosion. They didn’t tell people nearby where the radiation was.
Like Naoto Kan, former Japanese prime minister, said to Arnie Gundersen, the data he was getting from TEPCO, and his own regulators at the time of the nuclear accident were neither timely nor accurate. This information is in the film.
Also like Yumi Kikuchi is saying in the film, she felt like people in Japan were treated like guinea pigs. Data were researched on them to see how much radiation they’ve gotten and also because there were different radioactive elements from this disaster that were not studied yet.
I felt I had a responsibility to do a film about this because now I knew, and I had to expose what was going on because people didn’t know what was happening.
Libbe HaLevy
And what we know is so distorted because of the amount of propaganda and news manipulation by the nuclear industry.
Philippe Carillo
Yes, the nuclear industry, according to Maggie Gundersen, is spending a lot of money to promote the nuclear energy, but also to discredit scientists and doctors who dare to expose them and their lies.
Libbe HaLevy
For the film, you interviewed several world-wide known experts including Dr. Helen Caldicott, Arnie Gundersen and Maggie Gundersen as well as several other that I’ve not yet encountered, but I was glad to learn about through the film.
One of these, we’ve already mentioned, was former Japan Time Journalist Yoichi Shimatsu. What I love about what he shared was that he was angry, he was righteous, he let it show, he did not meant mince his words, and to my taste his response was absolutely appropriate because too often when we deal with the nuclear industry, or the nuclear atrocities that have been committed, we are very polite about it. And he was not polite, he was very strong. How did you find him? And what was it like when you were working with him?
Philippe Carillo
Well, I did a search on the internet and his name showed up. What I like about people I interview is that they are whistle-blowers. They were there, working inside or they were aware of cover-ups. So, they know a lot more than the general public. And when I interview people who are still inside an institution, they can’t tell me everything.
It happened to me in Seattle when I interviewed two professors at the University. They said to me that they can’t say everything. Otherwise, they will be fired or in trouble. So, Yoichi was out and could tell me everything. He is a veteran journalist who worked for the Japan Times, you know. He was doing a lot of investigations and also had a lot of contacts pretty much everywhere, but also in the government circle, which gave him insight information.
At some point, I was over warmed by the amount of information. I couldnt even think of exposing all of these because it was too far from the reality of the common people. There was some information that relates to Japan National Security, and I did not touch that. This is not the goal of the film. I wanted to do a film for people to understand that nuclear power is dangerous and not cheap at all, and the fact that accidents happened, and more will happen again in the future.But working with Yoichi was something very interesting. I had to ingest data at full speed because he was already an expert on that matter. But he is a good guy. He is one of these journalists who really stays on the truth part of the story without compromising. And he understands nuclear radiation very well. I learned a lot during that time, and he gave me his trust to unfold the hidden side of that story.
Libbe HaLevy
How did you cut down the amount of information you had to this very tight 52 min film that really does a tremendously comprehensive job of not only explaining Fukushima, but explaining the entire nuclear dilemma that we find ourselves in with reactors and waste and exposure to radioactivity?
Philippe Carillo
This is how I work: when I cut an interview, I remove what is not essential, what is not crucial. All of the information was important, but some of it was too far away from the reality of the people. So, I decided to take only what people can ingest. If its too much then they will drop it. I had to be careful and take it a little piece by little piece and add it in a way where it become a little more real for people that the nuclear industry is full of lies.
And it has to be said by the right people, you see. I interviewed a bunch of people, but they didn’t have enough credentials, so I had to exclude them from the film. And when it comes to Dr. Helen Caldicott, nobody can tell me that I am a conspiracy theorist. She is a Nobel Prize nominee, and her organization got the Nobel Prize. She has so much knowledge and information to share. She has done so much already to warn the world about the danger of nuclear radiation. She is truly a peaceful warrior.
Also, I had to cut the film to 52 min because this is a TV format, and this is what my distributor wanted. So, I had to go with the essentials.
I removed a part where we did some radiation measurements in Tokyo following the railroad because according to Yoichi, train load after train loads of nuclear debris were sent to a plasma burner in Tokyo and we measured 5 times the background level of radiation there.
Libbe HaLevy
The thing about radiation is that you explained it in the film, better than I have seen it explained in any other piece of media that’s out there. You used voice over, you used animation, but you really got into what radiation does to the cell in a way that completed a picture for me. How did you go about developing this information and how did you decide on the points you wanted to cover?
Philippe Carillo I wanted to break the misunderstanding of nuclear radiation. The nuclear industry has contributed to the confusion for a long time and for good reasons. They don’t want people to get into that. They don’t want people to understand and be able to say, Well you are not right. They want people to only believe the experts who are the only one who have the right to touch this topic.
And I found out that it was very hard to understand nuclear radiation, so I did write something I wanted to say and got the corrections done by former NASA Scientist Randall Mielke, nuclear experts Maggie and Arnie Gundersen. And it was still too complex, so I had to simplify it even more for the common people to understand. And then comes the voice over session and the talent tells me, It’s too complicated, we need to simplify.
So I agreed with him to see what will come out. We did work on that a bit and then I believe now it is easy to grab the main concept of what nuclear radiation does to our cells and to all living creatures. And you know, for education purposes, I wanted to have kids be able to understand what is being said as well. And for me it was a major point. I know that if you want to handle something, you have to understand it first. If you want to fight, and change things, you need to understand it first.
Libbe HaLevy
Well, its very well done. In the film, you bring up something called the Kisha club, one of your interviewees spoke about it, and it was referenced as an important factor in Japan’s cover-up of what was really happening at Fukushima. Tell us more about the Kisha Club, and the culture behind it.
Philippe Carillo
The Kisha club system in Japan is embedded journalism. Every big company has this way of not letting any data getting out without being filtered. So basically, when they see that something is about to get out to the general public, because of an accident or just because they want to communicate about something, they make sure that only good news will go out.
So, in the process, they eliminate a lot of things just to give good news for the outside public opinion. This is much embedded into the culture of Japan by the way. They are really like this. They don’t want to make waves or problems of any kind you know. And this is unfortunate because this is not the raw news, it is edited news.
Libbe HaLevy
That’s like the World Nuclear Association has world nuclear news that they pull out every week. And its a compendium of articles all of which just say the most wonderful thing about nuclear, I never heard a discouraging word. These are articles that are picked up by newspapers that don’t have funds to do their own stories and their own research. And that is one of the ways that they consistently get out their perspective. And it’s not one or two, they will have like 20 stories a week going out, any one of which is prepared in a way that’s appropriate for print.
But it’s not that they’re necessarily telling the truth or the whole truth or the difficult truth, that’s what they avoid. And that’s why the conversation has been so skewed in the media to supporting nukes and not hearing the alternative perspective because against all their millions and all their staff and the work that they are doing.
We’ve got a couple of podcasts, a couple of cable programs, and that’s about it. So, moving on from the Keisha club, there’s one aspect that is taken as truth and that is that there is no way to clean up radioactive contamination from the water.
And we’re facing this with the 1.3 plus million tons of radioactive water tritium contaminated that Japan is planning to release into the Pacific Ocean.
You had a former NASA nuclear scientist in your film, Randall Mielke, saying that he has developed something called the bio-optimized bio-remediation system. He refers to it as the Bob system using biofilms and that this is something that could clean up the radioactivity at Fukushima and beyond. How did you discover him? How did you discover his work? And why do you think his claims are credible enough to be included in your film?
Philippe Carillo
I met him during the production of my plastic pollution film. He was working with a researcher, a scientist that I had interviewed. He explained to me the whole process. He was the only one at the time that I knew had a solution for the nuclear radiation to be cleaned up. And then I interviewed him on camera, and he described exactly how his system was working, plus he was actually dealing already with TEPCO to propose a solution.And TEPCO was very interested. And then like he said in the film, at some point, they have a leak at the plant, and they lost all their contaminated water that went to the ocean, so there was no need to clean the water and that was it. But I think there is more to the story than that.
Libbe HaLevy
We originally spoke when I interviewed you about the film for a Fukushima Fallout Awareness Network event. You mentioned that there was a relationship between Fukushima and the current extent of the Arctic Ice Melt. What do you see as that connection?
Philippe Carillo
We’re all talking about climate change nowadays. The Arctic is melting, etc. There is a marketing push about climate change that is not always right. So, I asked Randall Mielke, if there was a possible link between radioactive elements falling in the Arctic and the fact that the ice bed is melting. And he said to me, yes. I said to him, why nobody went there to get a sample and analyse it? He said to me, Well, you have to have a special permit to go there and then it’s going to cost a lot of money. I asked: So nobody did the research? He said “no.” So, he said to me that a nuclear fallout or let’s say radioactive particles on the ice bed of the Arctic will melt the ice over time.
Journalist Yoichi Shimatsu told me that there are around 70 scientists who found a link between the ozone hole and Fukushima. That data didn’t go public much because it was not following the climate change narrative of governments. But this is one of the links between climate change and nuclear radiation.
Libbe HaLevy
Is this the type of influence that the Kisha club would have on stories getting out?
Philippe Carillo
I don’t think so because this is outside of Japan. I think the Kisha club system is more like they’re going to hide everything that TEPCO is doing. They’re going to hide that there has been dumping some of the nuclear wastewater already and they’re just playing with us right now saying, yeah, oh you know what? We want the authorization from the IAEA. I don’t trust them. The IAEA is not here to protect us. They are not the regulator of the nuclear waste. Their purpose is to promote nuclear power, so there is a big conflict of interest here. And plus we found out that they are not telling the whole truth. Several scientists and marine biologists in the Pacific Region are also really concerned about how they gave the green light to Japan to dump their pollution into our ocean. This is insanity. They have no respect for the other 40 countries who share this ocean.
The Japanese government have also been caught lying already about the issue, so I don’t trust them either. So, you see the problem. The groundwater is still leaking since 2011 and nothing has been done about it. And this is very, very highly radioactive water because it goes through the melted core. I mean, you can’t have more radiation than that. And the reason why they try to lie to the Pacific Island Nations right now is because it costs less money than trying to find a solution for the radioactive water over there. It costs less, much, much less money to try to brainwash everybody in the Pacific region by sending a team of PR to meet all the journalists and give them only good news.
Libbe HaLevy
You also spoke about the way Japanese money is being spent in the South Pacific Island nations and how that is influencing their ability to fight back or have their voices heard.
Question: What was it that you have seen, because you’re living in a south Pacific Island nation of Vanuatu what do you see as being the influence of Japanese money on this fight to not let the radioactive water be released?
Philippe Carillo
Japan is giving a lot of money to fund a lot of projects here in Vanuatu, but not only in Vanuatu, also in different Pacific Island nations. We appreciate that, really. They are our neighbour, and we have a good relationship with them. But we can’t be silenced because of the money. What they are about to do is wrong.
Many people around the Pacific Region are also against it. Member of Parliament Honorable Andrew Napuat and I have been in contact with scientists and marine biologists in the region and they are all saying loud and clear that this is not ok for Japan to do that. But there is more work to be done with the journalists around the region. They don’t understand what is going on, because nuclear energy is not easy to understand.
Here for example, we have a poor coverage on the matter so far. I did a screening at the University 2 days ago and invited all the journalists. Only one came. I mean, this is a hot topic, we need to fight back because this is about our future and the future of our kids. But it seems like no journalist is taking the topic to a level of awareness.
Libbe HaLevy
And this is in Vanuatu?
Philippe Carillo
This is in Vanuatu. Only one came because he was already in touch with me. You know why? It’s because Japan did some kind of workshop with them already giving them all the data and I think they are confused. Our people here have a hard time to understand what is being done.
So, we’re facing a weird situation where I will have to finally show the film to everybody to create a big awareness here because we can’t count on anybody else to do the job. It may change, but it will take a lot of work to educate our journalists about nuclear radiation and the lies of this industry. But if they watch my film, it will help, it will be like a crash course.Now MP Andrew Napuat is one of these leaders who understand what is going on and will never let go. He has been vocal on other topics already in the country. And this is what I like about him. He really works for the people who choose him to be their leader, and to protect us from this threat from Japan. So hopefully, people will catch up on the matter.
Libbe HaLevy
That’s the same problem we have in any community that does have a nuclear reactor that the company in charge pays for playgrounds or community centers or little events and everybody goes, oh wow, isn’t that wonderful? Look at what they’re doing for us. Not seeing what they’re doing to them with the technology that they placed in their own backyards.
Philippe Carillo
Exactly. I agree. When are people going to wake up? This is crazy. I try to wake people up with my film and I hope people are going to just do something about it. Because when you see the film, suddenly you become aware. You are like, oh, okay, yeah, wow, maybe I can do something to help here. You know, that’s why I do film, otherwise I will not do films, if my film doesn’t create any good and make a change, then why I’m doing films, I will just go to a remote island and I go fishing and that’s it, you know?
Libbe HaLevy
Well, we’re not going to let you go fishing yet. Maybe between screening because what we’re up against now is that Oliver Stone, you should pardon the expression, has a film that’s coming out, I believe it hits as of May 1st, that’s going to be completely positive pro-nuclear and pay no attention to those rabid activists, all they’re doing is being alarmists and nuclear is really the way out of the climate crisis when indeed, as we’ve addressed so many times on Nuclear Hotseat, the ways that it is not, it does seem that with the timing of your film, it is the antidote to Oliver Stone and his upcoming film. So, the question now is:
How are you planning to distribute the film?
Is there distribution in place?
Are you open to being contacted by groups or universities to sponsor screenings of it?
What is going on now to get your film Fukushima Disaster, the hidden side of the story out into the world?
Philippe Carillo
The film is in contract with the distributor Journeyman Pictures in the UK already. They have a big network of television that works with them. So, I invite people to watch my film. It is educational, full of data, nuclear radiation is clearly explained, and it is also entertaining with a bunch of emotions. You may get angry watching the film or you may cry, but you will not stay untouched.
People can watch it on Amazon, iTunes, Apple TV, Google Play, and Vimeo right now.
And I am always happy when Universities or schools contact me to screen the film. Our children need to know what is being done to their future. So yes, any group or universities can contact me and we can work something out.
I think the film is going to take a little bit of time to get popular because the topic is not completely in the present of everybody’s mind yet, but is going to be, thanks to Oliver Stone. I like and respect the filmmaker, I like his work, but this time with his film Nuclear Now it seems like he had been brainwashed by the World Economic Forum. They are the one behind this film. One of the executive producers, the people who bring the money, is a woman, and she’s a part of the World Economic Forum as well as 3 more of Oliver Stones producers.
So here we go again, to brainwash everybody that nuclear is fine because now there is a need of nuclear weapons because of the war in Ukraine and the threat of a war against Russia and China. But as I said to you earlier, the basic lie about nuclear power is that nuclear power plants are made primarily to produce electricity. That’s a lie. I found out during the production of my film that the primary reason we have nuclear plants is to build nuclear bombs. And that’s why we are still there because of national security. That’s the main reason. And if people understand that we have nuclear plants because of nuclear bombs, then things may change for the better.
Libbe HaLevy
That’s right because plutonium is part of the waste stream of every nuclear reactor. It’s created in the so-called spent fuel rods. Really, they’re not spent; they’ve still got a lot in them. And what they’ve got is plutonium, which can very easily be turned into weapons-grade plutonium and the United States initially with the Atoms for Peace program, they were looking at what they were paying to have nuclear reactors that created the plutonium for them and they were like, well we don’t want to be paying this. Let’s make it into a utility and let’s use the heat to boil water, to make steam, to make electricity and pretend that this is all for a power source and it’s good for people. and it will be too cheap to meter as opposed to we’re really doing this so that in the waste stream we’ve got all the plutonium we could ever want, need or use to blow this planet up multiple times over.
Philippe Carillo
Yeah, that’s right. This is the sad reality of this industry.
Libbe HaLevy
You did a tremendous amount of research and interviewing with individuals for the film and there’s of course much more footage than could possibly be used in the film because you only use small snippets that you distilled down to, real essence things and you have very generously posted raw interviews, as well as your raw material on your website, www.exposurefilmstrust.com and I will have a link up on the website with this episode and they include the full interviews and that means with Helen Caldicott, Arnie Gundersen, Maggie Gundersen, and many others.
Question: What is your thinking about how this footage might or can be used and if people wish to use it, do they need your permission or can they just go grab and run it?
Philippe CarilloWell, I didn’t do this film for the money, obviously but for me to finance the next film, which would be great to get something out of it. I still have many films to do, I’m not done yet. But in the same time, I still want people to get the data if they don’t have the money to pay. There are some segments of the film to watch for free on the official website which also contain the raw interviews that are not part of the film, and a lot of data can be found there: ExposureFilmsTrust.com
Libbe HaLevy
I do know that I have some dedicated listeners to Nuclear HotSeat who are always hungry for the deep dive into any information, especially any new information that might be forthcoming. And I know that they’ll be very excited about this link, and we’ll be watching them. I know I will be watching them as well.
Question: Is there any final thought of something that we have not mentioned about the film or that you would like people to know about the film?
Philippe CarilloWe need to end nuclear weapons. If not, we will still have nuclear plants that are very expensive and very dangerous for the future of our planet. Our descendants will have to take care of our dirty choices and deal with nuclear waste for more than 250,000 years. And that’s a shame. They don’t deserve a radioactive planet. We should have been the protectors of our world. We need to continue the fight until we are done with this Pandora’s Box and close it for ever.
Libbe HaLevy
You have done a tremendous job in putting together your film Fukushima Disaster, The Hidden Side of the Story. You have done an important piece of work that can be a cornerstone into cracking people’s consciousness open, the trick being to get them to sit down for 52 minutes to watch the thing. Hopefully, they will. We’ll do everything in our power to help. And for now, Philippe Carillo, I want to thank you for being my guest today on Nuclear Hot Seat.
Philippe Carillo
You are very welcome. Thank you very much for having me.
Libbe HaLevy – Producer and Host, Nuclear Hotseat Podcast/Broadcast, Author and TEDx Speaker.
Nuclear Hotseat: www.NuclearHotseat.com
LINK to the episode: https://nuclearhotseat.com/podcast/antidote-oliver-stone-fukushima-disaster/
Trailer: https://youtu.be/kBqk0OtlE8k
Extracts:
Distributor (Screening Licenses): https://www.journeyman.tv/film/8421
Official Website: www.exposurefilmstrust.com
Rent or buy the film:
AppleTV: https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/the-fukushima-disaster/umc.cmc.3rfome5kj2hfpo2q9fwx5u0y0
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/the-fukushima-disaster/id1672643918?ls=1
Amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/placeholder_title/dp/B0B8TK5FZC/ref=sr_1_1
Amazon USA: https://www.amazon.com/Fukushima-Disaster-Yoichi-Shimatsu/dp/B0B8TLSRN4
Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/movies/details?id=vehqb5ex-L8.P&sticky_source_country=US&gl=US&hl=en&pli=1Vimeo on demand:https://vimeo.com/ondemand/thefukushimadisaster
